Dead people living well ?

Living well – really?

Here’s the list from the Living Proof website.

Names crossed out denotes a death from AIDS or related complications.

Maria Papagiannidou
John Hankins
Karri Stokely
Onnie Mary Moyo Phuthe
Tomás Brewster
Lindsey Nagel

Two are sadly passed away. I know of two others who are prominent on youtube and the rethinkingaids facebook page. I

And from Living With0ut HIV Drugs at least 3 are now dead, and several who are active on the forum and very low CD4 counts and piss-poor quality of life.  I am a loss to understand why they think CD4 counts of 200 or less are healthy, or that staying off meds is going to help them. Some of the denialists sheepishly admit to going back onto meds when their quality of live becomes unbearable. Why?! If you don’t believe the science why take the meds? If you think they do more harm than good why start meds again?

Its very, very depressing to have to list these name and think about so many people who have died way before their time. If only they’d listened to reason.

I suspect more people listed on this site have passed away but can’t be sure.

Daz M.
Denis C.
Dennis L.
Emery T.
Frank A.
Greg W.
Jeff K.
Jonathan B.
Karri S.
Kay R.
Kevin C.
Kim B.
Mark C.
Mark H.
Mitchelle M.
Noreen M.
Norman S.
Paula M.
Ron M.
Scott D.
Star Z.
Stephen J.
Terry R.
Tim B.
Tomas B.
Tommy M.
Marcus P.

15 Responses

  1. So you’ve got a handful of people there in your tiny list of people, and two of them I have added to MY list, wannna play shuffle the shell game? I’ll pull up the fucking genociadal quilt of all of the DEAD ARV patients and see which is bigger you fucking moron.

  2. You got Miss Piggy on that list? And my friend Maria – who is very much alive and kicking thanks to ARVs.

  3. What was her actual CAUSE of death? AIDS isn’t a cause of death, Kaposi, Infection etc … is considered to be a cause of death stemming from AIDS infection. Not that I really fall on either side of the fence, scientists shouldn’t do anything other than observe, but people do die from stuff. Hank Wilson died from Lung cancer, mind you he admitted to doing a lot of inhaled drugs, which can cause lung cancer. We need to cut our emotions, and financial interests, away from medicine. It’s killing us, literally. Sometimes we are wrong, and that’s OK, because we are only human. On BOTH sides of the fence.

  4. I don’t think denialists question AIDS, they just think it can be caused by a variety of things and not exclusively HIV. Stopping ARVs won’t nessesarily stop CD4 cell death, but there could be a massive amount of stuff that ARVs do that promotes cell health. For example, they have anti-oxidant capacity … does that impact CD4 cells … of course. The real problem is that the discussion is being carried on by people with biases and no education in science beyond dogma. Questions are good, blind faith is for fools.

    • Their forum is called ARVs as anti-oxidants?? I don’t think so. Not a pharmacologist however so what do I know.

      • That was poor wording on my part, they are not questioning the existance of AIDS. They are questioning the pathology (path the disease takes) of HIV causing AIDS. I know that some anti-retroviral medications have anti-oxidant properties, such as 3tc (Combivir). Other anti-viral medications not used for HIV patients have similar actions, such as anti-singles/herpes medications.

        AIDS (as defined by reduced cd4 count) happens in a wide array of other situations, such as chemotherapy/radiation side-effects, as well as malnutrition.

        No one should take pleasure in the suffering of another person. What I meant by “people die from stuff”, means, AIDS doesn’t cause a bus accident, or a heart attack, or liver failure, or a stroke.

        Do you have any idea of what the cause of death was for Maria Papagiannidou? If someone has AIDS, and they die because their parachute doesn’t open and they are sky diving, you can’t blame lack of anti-retrovirals.

  5. Jonathan Barnett should be removed from the list. He’s taking ARVs again because his CD count has nosedived.

    • What does that have to do with my question? I was talking about Papagiannidou, not Jonathan Barnett. I don’t even know who that is. Do you have any idea of what the cause of death was for Maria Papagiannidou? I have no inerest in it being either way, I’m just telling you that everyone dies eventually. Not everyone dies of AIDS related illnesses, which do not include heart attacks or accidents, or liver failure.

      I’m not concerned with either result, just what the result is.

      Thanks …

  6. As a result of drug treatment, like many chemos cause heart attacks. Especially the ones used for treating lymphomas … like doxorubicin … I am sure there is a connection. Seriously, it is comical that heart attacks are now included in HIV diagnosis now. From a pathology point of view, it makes absolutely no sense.

    I understand your position, but no one should be cheering because someone died, regardless of their views.

  7. Hi Johnny

    I am still here and those who are not did not choose. I wish to understand the point you are trying to make with regard at least to me – I am HIV+ since 2001 and diagnosed with AIDS In 2008 and Left AIDS meds in 2009. Now, I believe we must understand and respect every body for their decision. Drug or no drug – man must do what ever it takes to hold on to life. I quit ARV as a way to hold on to what also matters to you dear – Life. When I die I wish you will be kind in acknowledging that I could have died in 2009 but then I will die later when death conquers me. Please make show you will respect my choices with regards to my No arv IN MY hiv and aids management. If I was interested in death I could hand myself, now because I am Interested in life , I try and make errors to survive. I know you do do the same. If you die before me I will respect you still . And If I die before you remember to respect me – I choose Life NO MATTER what I am choosing from. I see you are crossing out lines. good, a phone call to ask me how I am will be much better than the cross after my death . Call me on +267 71297477 or drop by my house leave me some body building foods, and share a smile, lets not have you wait upon death as the wait may be too long. Lol Take care and remember Life Lost leaves people behind who hurt, so don unto others what you would want done upon you. Even if I may be making an uninfomed choice – so far Its the best choice I know how.

    Today 05/11/2012 my body is doing some house keeping – I have a flu, no man knows not his hour of death – I am Human too.

  8. Many of us are alive and well! I have been off the HAART for eight years now. Many of us have been told that we are HIV positive but in fact, it cannot be found in us. So the law suits will follow. So you folks can hang on to HIV all that you want while many of us are going to the bank!

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